52% intelligent. 9% modest. More monkey than bear.

Sunday, July 31, 2005

So let's put on our classics and we'll have a little dance, shall we?

It's a word we all use all of the time. It's not very big or very impressive and wouldn't get you much in Scrabble, even with a triple-word score. Five letters. The late, great Richard Whiteley would probably not have been expecting to see you in the next episode of Countdown if you had came up with this, and it wouldn't have taken Carol long to rack it up. 3 consonants and 2 vowels please Carol.

It has a lot of meanings, but I'm particularly interested in this one:

"Of outstanding significance or importance".

What makes something (or someone) great? Not war anyway, if a certain big-eared green know-all is to be believed.... but what does? Is greatness something that can be objectively assigned to something? Can we all categorically agree on greatness?

If you look at the results of some of those polls for "greatest film of all time" you'd probably think so. Some films appear time and time again. Take 'Citizen Kane'. Always in the upper echelons of these polls, but how many of the people who must vote for this have actually seen it or could say what it is that makes this a great film? Many of the things that mark it out as an original have become diluted because they are now commonplace. Does that make it less great? Books are the same (although here the word 'great' is often replaced with the word 'classic', but I take them to be essentially synonyms in this context). Have you read "War and Peace"? No? It's a classic though, isn't it?

It's a nonsense, of course it is. How could the classification of anything in this way be anything other than subjective? You either like something or you don't. It's possible to admire something that you don't like, I think, but would you want to call it great? I don't think I would, and yet there is still definitely a sort of consensus opinion about this kind of thing.... something inside all of us which makes us want to say that 'Raging Bull' is a great film, but that 'Ghostbusters' is merely an amusing comedy from the 1980s, even if we all know which one we would rather be watching.

This brings me to music.... what is it that makes a song great? Is it the singer? Is it the lyrics? Is it that fantastic synth solo in the middle?

Let's carry out a completely unscientific experiment here to explore this, shall we? I want you to put your thinking caps on. Cast your mind back over the last 10 years.

Think about what you reckon the 5 greatest songs are since 1995.

Now have a think about what you think will go down as the 5 greatest songs since 1995.

Are the two lists different?

Why?

(and yes, of course I want to know what songs you've come up with - on both lists)

14 Comments:

  • At 11:30 pm, Blogger Damo said…

    Any kind of 'definitive' poll of the five greatest albums since 1995 will have Angels by Robbie Williams. Which is why I don't want to think about it too much.

    I'll have a go at my favourite 5 since 1995, but I'm bound to miss something. I guess it'll be

    Lava - Silver Sun
    Sparky's Dream - Teenage Fanclub
    The Battle Of Who Could Care Less - Ben Folds
    Everlong - Foo Fighters

    And I'll leave the fifth blank. Because I've thought of that list quickly and I'll have left too many out. The fifth is lots and lots of different tracks. And it's all subjective and I'd give you a different answer tomorrow.

     
  • At 11:30 pm, Blogger Damo said…

    First sentence should have read '...singles...'

    Duh.

     
  • At 11:30 pm, Blogger Damo said…

    And that lyric of yours - isn't it from 'Let's Push Things Forward' by The Streets, a song all about not dwelling in the musical past?

    :-)

     
  • At 8:41 am, Blogger LB said…

    this is really hard. As you quite rightly point out, what on earth do you define as "great"? Critically "great"? Sold gazillions of copies "great"? wins polls of best record "great"?

    hmmm.

    although I do think the two lists will be wildly different. Whilst I think that Geneva were genius, with the best will in the world I can't see "Tranquillizer" being on any list of the "greatest songs since 1995" irrespective of definition (other than perhaps my own of course. Hmmmmmm.)

    this demands some thought. gives me something to do on a Monday, anyway.

     
  • At 9:11 am, Blogger Robin said…

    This is terrible. I can't think of a single track or album that qualifies as "great" in my head, post-'95, which means one of two things:

    1) I haven't listened to enough music in the last ten years
    2) I have high standards and terminal nostalgia

     
  • At 9:19 am, Blogger Mark said…

    because good taste and popular taste are two different things.

     
  • At 9:38 am, Blogger Teresa Bowman said…

    This is kind of related to a problem that I find with the English language these days. What does make something "the greatest [whatever] of all time" in an age when all you have to do to be a "genius" is know a little bit about something or be quite good at something, and all a woman has to do to be a "goddess" is shave her f***ing legs?

     
  • At 11:35 am, Blogger LB said…

    good taste and popular taste don;t have to be two different things, do they?

    surely things can be good and popular? (he says madly fishing for an example).

    "Gladiator".

    "X and Y".

    the Lord of the Rings films.

    maybe?

     
  • At 4:46 pm, Blogger HistoryGeek said…

    Great is highly subjective, but I would disagree about classic meaning the same as great. Classic seems to be about those works which seem to appeal across time. Something classic may be great, but something great may not become classic.

    Since I feel like my musical exposure was severely compromised until I got a car with a radio last year, I will bow out of the music part of this.

     
  • At 6:31 pm, Blogger Mark said…

    they are two different things but often overlap

     
  • At 7:22 pm, Blogger red one said…

    Yes, I'm having trouble with "great" too. Partly because I thought it would be a handy way of narrowing down the films I've seen because I've got such problems with "favourite". It isn't.

    "Of outstanding significance or importance".

    I think that's a good definition of something that is generally agreed to be great, as distinct from something you reckon is great. But how wide the collective agreement stretches is another matter.

    For example, I was thoroughly put off "great" literature by a very horrible, bigoted right-wing English teacher. What rescued literature for me was partly that instead of A-levels I did a course with an internationally agreed syllabus. "Internationally agreed" means they have to leave it very flexible, unlike the English educational habit of having a prescribed canon.

    So the rules were that you had to read books in your first language (in my case, but not necessarily, English) from at least three different continents and three different eras of time.

    That's how I got to read Chinua Achebe's book Things Fall Apart, which I reckon is great in lots of ways but I can't imagine the teacher from school even reading. The post-16 course was aiming very deliberately at a wide and inclusive definition of great.

    erm, that doesn't really answer your question, Swiss, does it?
    RedOne

     
  • At 1:29 am, Blogger Michael said…

    I went through iTunes, made a smart playlist of all songs recorded from '95 to '05, that I had given 5 stars to. Had 624 songs come up. (my music library is over 7000 songs).

    I magically narrowed that group down to five. This is where my Americaness and metal-headedness shows itself.

    1. River of Deceit by Mad Season
    2. Aenema by Tool
    3. A World So Cold by Mudvayne
    4. Prayer by Disturbed
    5. Bulls On Parade by Rage Against the Machine

    I came up with these for a few reasons. I'm a lyric person. All these songs reached me in some way, shape or form because of their lyrics. Musically, I know I could find songs that were better on a technical level, but music isn't a contest on greatest ability. Its about putting passion into sounds and words, and all of these do it well. The rage song is the most lacking on those terms, but that song brought on a revolution in music. It created the explosion of rap/metal that was topping rock charts in the US for the latter half of the 90's.

    My top five would have... ZERO influence on what I think a list would show up on a TV show or magazine. I have little faith in those who make such choices. So, I figure every song will come from a movie soundtrack, or TV show. Plus, the more I hate the song, the better it would do overall.

    1. My Heart Will Go On by Celine Dion
    2. I'll Be there For You by The Rembrandts
    3. Don't Cry For Me Argentina by Madonna
    4. I Don't Wanna Miss A Thing by Aerosmith
    5. Lose Yourself by Eminem

     
  • At 1:45 pm, Blogger LB said…

    Greatest Songs Since 1995

    1. Everybody's Changing - Keane
    2. Come What May (from the film "Moulin Rouge") - Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman
    3. Nice Guy Eddie - Sleeper
    4. You Can Talk To Me - Seahorses
    5. Don't Marry Her - Beautiful South (for the lyrics)

    The Greatest Songs Since 1995

    1. Angels - Robbie Williams
    2. Evergreen - Will Young
    3. Wonderwall - Oasis
    4. Common People - Pulp
    5. Three Lions - Baddiel, Skinner and the Lightning Seeds

    Oh come on. any other song got stuck in the national consciousness and used every week up and down the country as much as that one?

    although I like the inclusion of Eminem also.

    clearly both rubbish lists, there.

     
  • At 9:49 pm, Blogger Erika said…

    Nickleback! Nickleback!

    God, they make me embarrassed to be Canadian. Please tell me the rest of you don't agree that Nickelback is going to go down in history as classic rock. Even with Soulcrusher's vaguely cynical justification for the idea.

     

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